I can't decide whether this is more of an indictment of Tony Pike and Armanti Edwards or an endorsement of a player I'd never heard of until last week, but John Fox's decision to start Brian St. Pierre Sunday against the Baltimore Ravens strikes me as a little ridiculous. (Jimmy Clausen is out with a concussion).
All sorts of theories abound on this one. Let's run through several, and I'll assign my own highly sujective "truthiness factor" to each:
1) "We're throwing BSP to the wolves" theory -- This one goes like this... The Ravens are going to probably injure whomever is in the starting lineup, so why not make St. Pierre the sacrificial lamb? Truthiness factor: 10 percent.
2) "John Fox can't stand Tony Pike" theory -- How can a guy who has been in training camp and in all those QB meetings and at least knows the playbook -- even if he is a rookie sixth-round draft pick -- not be ahead of a guy who was changing his son's diaper when he got the call from his agent last week? Truthiness factor: 70 percent.
3) "Panthers are playing for a high draft choice" theory: The best thing for Carolina at this point is to lose, and this guarantees it. Sorry, I don't buy it. John Fox isn't going to be here for this draft choice. doesn't care where it is. Truthiness factor: 0 percent.
4) "Take that, personnel department" theory: It's a well-known fact that Fox and his personnel department haven't seen eye-to-eye for much of this season. He doesn't like rookie quarterbacks. In fact, he says here, he's so tired of starting them when they're not ready that he's going to skip Pike (and Armanti) entirely and start someone who just got here. Take that, personnel department. Truthiness factor: 60 percent.
In reality, this is a combination of a few things, but in Fox's mind it undoubtedly boils down to his catchall slogan: "It gives us the best chance to win."
And who knows? Maybe it does? Pike hasn't exactly lit it up in limited action. Maybe starting BSP gives the Panthers a 10 percent chance of winning Sunday rather than a 7 percent chance. Either way, Panthers are going to lose Sunday.
For St. Pierre isn't Vinny Testaverde, as he would freely admit. And this, to me, seems pretty crazy.
We're moving!
9 years ago
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40 comments:
I wonder how much BSP is going to get paid for his 2 qtrs before getting smooshed to an oblivion? Is it really worth it to be a tackling dummy for a few weeks?
what a macabre thing to say!! i do agree though, I shall dance on his grave
Wow, this Sunday is going to be SO UGLY!! I'll be tuning in out of curiousity as much as anything. I can't believe even JR, Hurney of Jeff D is buying into this b.s.
Maybe next week we can put in the winner of the Harris Teeter challenge?
Do the Panthers at this point even care about their fans.. I mean Isnt this the point where you fire Fox.. seriously this back and forth crap is unnacceptable and if Richardson can fire his sons wtf is he waiting for.. :(
Very Very sad.
I am sick of people wishing for Mr. Richardson's death. That is disgusting. We all know the Panther's stink, ok we got it, move on. At least we have the luxury of having an NFL team at all-thanks to Mr. Richardson. Maybe the next time you cowards have a thought, let it go!
Fox won't have success unless he is willing to change his philosophy and actually let OC's coach the game they want. Fox is destined to be a mediocre coach unless he has great players around him. Lets be honest, Fox has needed to go since '06. We have been mediocre since then. In 2008 we were able to run like no one had seen before. But when our running game isn't tops in the league we have always been mediocre. We play mediocre Defense and waste talent. The only reason the Panthers are respectable, and contrary to most of our fans opinions, is because we draft extremely well and Fox had a good eye for talent among subpar players. We've never had a great scheme, and we have been running the same plays since '02. I hope Fox goes somewhere else. But unless they surround him with quality players he will just conservative them right into the ground too.
I'm begging for an Offensive head coach that will bring in a great defensive coach. Cowher isnt our answer. We aren't built for a 3-4...unless u want to lose all your favorite LBs. Plus that won't solve our mediocre offense. We need someone who is innovative and have them hire a DC from the Jim Johnson scheme. Living and dying by the blitz is how you win. Look at the great teams year in and year out. Only the Colts play bend until you break D....and they only win cuz they put up 30+ a game.
Put me in coach!
I'll gladly take a game check for some fun running away from Ray Lewis and Terrell Suggs.
Actually, its a clever ruse. Ala the Falcons game a few years ago, they're going to run the Mountaineer formation with Edwards 80% of the time
Playing Pike runs the risk of making Fox look like a fool for not playing him earlier. Playing BSP eliminates that risk when Clausen is reinstated next week.
O my WE SUCK...We suck, we suck, we suck.
We look like a JV team out there playing in a "Toilet" Bowl against the varsity each week.
I wonder if we will let the Ravens Defense look like the 2nd coming of the Steel Curtain.
We are the laughing stock of the NFL. A Lion's fan actually felt sorry for me...Lion's. We went from 13-3 to this? W...T...F
For those of you that are actually still going to games, don't! That's the way you send the message to JR that this product is crap and he should be ashamed that he put this on the field and raised ticket prices! I don't care that he is building for the lockout, he could at least keep the prices the same or LOWER them in this economy!!! Jeez, this isn't New York and I don't know about the rest of you, but paying $200 for 2 tickets in the nosebleed sections isn't worth the other sacrifices I'm making in order to go. I can pay a little more than that and get EVERY game on NFL Sunday Ticket. JR, fire Fox now! When he openly challenges your staff and their decisions in the player personnel department, you've lost his allegiance and he doesn't deserve staying on for the rest of the season. Not giving Pike or Edwards a chance is a sham and if you won't admit it, I want support the team by buying tickets and I would encourage the rest of you reading this to do the same. JR has made a "business" decision and so should we. Use that extra money you save by not going to the games for Christmas presents or something.
Ummm Chris Weinke??? Hello???
This is what I've been saying about Fox and his staff for years: They can't coach worth a damn.
Pike's been in the system all year, and they apparently can't coach him to be better than someone they picked off the street a week ago.
Maybe they can hold tryouts in the parking lot for a wide receiver to start on Sunday.
Go Panthers. Hopefully we can win sunday.
I was just reading comments at another site on an interview with Fox News honcho, Roger Ailes. Somebody was wishing for Ailes and all Fox employees to die...also, all Fox viewers. Wanting to lighten it up a little bit, I came over here to catch up on some sports and find some obnoxious clown wishing for JR's death. Me, I am wishing that all lowlifes who posts messages wishing for the deaths of others would die themselves. And burn in Hades. Also their wives, their children, and their pets. Also, any deposits that they might have in a sperm bank they should be destroyed by a flush.
Fire the fans that post here!!! Forcibly remove them from their homes and ship 'em to Boston where they can cheer tha Lobsta's...'ave sum maw chowda ya bottum feeda's!!!
Pierre may be leaving on a stretcher so Pike may play any way.
With Ray Lewis on the attack he may not make it thru one 3 and out.
Maybe it's the system that makes QB's bad and since BSP has been in it less he's actually better off. Then in fact he does give us the best chance to win.
I'll have to start drinking early on Sunday morning!
Die jerry! DIE!!!
You can be upset with JR, but seriously, calling for him to die because of the way he runs a football team is pathetic.
Any QB the panthers start is going to be running for his life. If you play a guy with no mobility the Raven D is just going to tee off. Edwards can run and throw. If nothing else, at least it would be interesting to see us try a completely different style. I mean, it's going to be an L regardless...
Just remeber all you clowns who are playing Frankenstein Villagers Panther Fans, we won't want you down the road. Get out and do not darken the stadium or this kind of forum ever again.
"For those of you that are actually still going to games, don't! That's the way you send the message to JR that this product is crap and he should be ashamed that he put this on the field and raised ticket prices!"
This is the truth, you hit someone in the pocketbook in order to get their attention.
After BSP is knocked out in the
Raven's game I hear Foxy is brnging in a QB from the Japanese Football League by the name of Win Wan Soon.
I cant keep up!!!!
This has got to be one of the craziest years as a Panthers fan I have ever seen...
And he!! we still have a few more games...
Whos up for taking bets on whats gonna happen next?
With this move I think it is time for Fox to go - unless he is really planning on running the Mountaineer most of the game. Or if he is trying to save the confidence level and the bones of Pike.
POWERPANTHER
This is a stupid move by Fox. Pike looked OK running the 2 min O a couple of weeks ago. He has been in camp and on the team since the start of the year. Are we really saying a 30 yr old journeyman with a couple of NFL passes is better. REALLY!!! We could go 2 min O.. run some mountaineer with Edwards...something... this is like throwing in the towel. There is no way a brand new addition gives us the best chance to win... Bring in Jimmy Johnson!!!!
Scott, your old buddy Pat Y. now covering the NFC South over at espn.com first had a post about how this was a signal that Fox was against the youth movement.
Then he updated the post with the news that Hunter Cantwell is being used by the Ravens to scout the offense. Cantwell doesn't have any info on St. Pierre. None of us do.
The Panther's were starting to implode before this season ever started. Why should this move surprise any of you.
Marty Hurney was looking after his own ass when he selected Clausen with their first pick last season. Hurney didn't have a first round pick because he gave it up the year before to select Everette Brown and Mike Goodson.
Marty Hurney sold out to Jerry Richardson because he to was trying to get his very own contract extened.
There's no head coach in the NFL, with only one year remaining on his contract, would ever consider taking a QB high with their first pick. Head coaches know that young QB's take time to develop in the NFL. Time that they don't have.
Coaches have to win this year, so they tend to look at things more short term. GM's. on the other hand, look at things more long term.
The Panther QB selection will only be helping the next "coaching staff" here in Charlotte.
Marty Hurney can say what he wants but football people know he was looking after his own ass. Hurney then had the adacity to move up in the draft and selecta "projection" at receiver with their third rd pick along with their 2011 second rd pick (which by the way looks like a late first rd pick now). Who does this?
If I were John Fox, I would say WTF fellows! I'm trying to win this year and all you have done is cut all of our experienced players and left me a young team, a rookie QB and a Project that can't even get on the field. This team couldn't even compete in the UFL right now.
Jerry Richardson and Marty Hurney had only one agenda this year and that was to save money and make John Fox look like a stubborn idiot. Guess what, they succeeded!
Marty Hurney saved his job but it will cost him his friendship with John Fox. The NFL is a doggy, doggy world and this won't be the first friendship it has ever ruined. It's not personal, it's just business as usual in the NFL.
Good post, Scott. My take is that starting BSP over Pike is a face-saving move for John Fox.
If Pike starts and has a good game, then Fox looks bad for not starting him ahead of Clausen. Plus, the team then has a QB controversy next week when Clausen returns.
But no matter how well or how poorly BSP plays, it's understood that he's an emergency QB, and Fox avoids any (more) heat.
This just went from a youth movement to a bowel movement.
JR please do one thing right this year and go ahead and send Teflon John on his way. Seriously. The guy is a joke as a coach and he clearly wants to gig you and the franchise. Why keep around a poisonous pill?
Here's my theory and it's a 99% truthfulness factor:
Fox can't coach up ANYONE. Why else would BSP give us "the best chance to win"? Because he knows if he puts Pike in and he gets dominated, it'll be just another quarterback that HE COULDN'T COACH up.
Bye bye Fox. I have lost all respect for you as a coach.
I'm starting Brian because he looks cuter in the uni. Tony is a little too tall for my taste.
Gotta love it - if the Panther's keep it close then Fox is a genius and gets even more millions from another owner. If they lose, then it confirms that it's the GM, not Fox.
In this case "it is what it is" means "I WIN EITHER WAY".
stop bashing the team. they messed up this year. next year will be totally different. if they spend no $$$ next year, then start cursing the organization, but not yet.
Just 7 more games b4 Foxy is gone!
"What are the chances the Panthers could Kevin Kolb in the off season"?
How about a zero, especially if Andy R wants a 1st round pick. Kolb would look average with this offense.
The Panthers sure don't have a 2nd round pick. I think Hurney should trade down due to teams will be looking at Luck such as the Vikings, 49ers, etc etc.
Get an extra 2-3 pick to select a DT with the first picks and WR with the 2nd picks. The rest of the draft add good quality Oline depth, not full with 6th or 7th rounder.
It is crucial that the Panthers see how Clausen plays down the stretch. If he shows signs of life then we can talk about trading the possible #1 pick. If Clausen doesn't show much I think they need to think hard about drafting Luck. That kid looks like a franchise changing QB to me. He is smart, accurate & mobile. Luck looks like the real deal. The good thing is that this will be the first time in a long time that the #1 pick will be very valuable. The one thing that both sides agree on concerning the new CBA is that a rookie cap needs to be put in place. That will mean that Luck will probably get paid about half of what Bradford is getting paid. The #1 pick won't totally cripple your team financially. With a rookie cap if the player doesn't work out it won't hamstring you financially like it has in the recent past. I bet more teams will call about trading up now that it isn't such a financial risk.
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