(MONDAY UPDATE: Rivera had an 11 a.m. news conference with the media but did not know what his future held. He said he hoped to keep his job and that he would be meeting with owner Jerry Richardson soon to determine what his and the team's future will be. He did not sound particularly confident. Players leaving the stadium who were interviewed expressed pretty much unanimous support for the current coaching staff).
That should be enough.
Ron Rivera's Panthers won the final four games of their season, finishing a respectable 7-9 and winning a tiebreaker to end up second in the NFC South after edging New Orleans 44-38 Sunday. They lost way too much too early, which meant they missed the playoffs for the fourth year in a row. But ultimately they did play a little better overall in the second year of Rivera's reign (in 2011, they were 6-10).
I also believe Rivera has improved as a coach and is starting to curb his conservative tendencies. Witness him reconsidering an early punt against the Saints on fourth-and-8 from the New Orleans 37 and instead going for a 54-yard field goal.
The field goal missed, but nevertheless it was the right call. When you play the Saints, you must pile up the points, and the Panthers did so. I also liked the fact that the Panthers knelt down inside the New Orleans 10 to end the game rather than try to score again. That was classy, especially given the fact the Saints had tried to grab every NFL record they could a year ago, keeping in their starters with the game well out of hand.
-- It was impossible not to be impressed by Cam Newton's toughness Sunday. I thought the second time his left leg got bent back almost underneath him that he was done for the afternoon, and yet there he came again, getting retaped and finishing the game after Derek Anderson subbed in briefly (and effectively).
-- I still believe that Carolina has too much money invested in the running back position and I won't be surprised (or displeased) at all if they part with DeAngelo Williams in the offseason. But with Jonathan Stewart so limited due to injury in 2012, having Williams was far more than a luxury Sunday -- it was a necessity. He had one of the best games any Panther running back has ever had (albeit against the defense that has given up more yards than any NFL defense ever in a single season). Williams rushed for 210 yards and two TDs, the most rushing yards in a game any Panther back has ever had.
-- One way to prolong Newton's durability: forget about giving him the ball on third-and-short and goal-line situations. Mike Tolbert has the body for that, as he proved Sunday with three short TDs in which he simply bowled his way through the line.
-- If only Charles Godfrey could play against Drew Brees every week. Godfrey's only two interceptions all season came against Brees -- one he returned for a TD in Week Two and the second set up a crucial Carolina TD in this game.
-- By winning this one only six points, Rivera finally got another "close" win. The Panthers are now 2-12 in his tenure in games decided by a touchdown or less.
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9 years ago
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I beleive the Bucs will finish 2nd in the NFC South, since our record with them is tied at 7-9, but the Bucs beat us twice. So we finish third in the division.
The fact is, this game, the last game, heck, this entire season means nothing to whether Rivera keeps his job. It was decided the day he signed his contract. If he went 0-32 for the past 2 season, he would have kept his job because Jerry is too cheap to pay two coaches, he proved that with the lame duck season with Foxx.
The fact is that Jerry would not spend the money to get a good coach, if he had ponied up the money he could have had Jim Harbaugh, and with that signing Andrew Luck would not have skipped the draft last year. Look what he did in his first year, and look what Harbaugh did with a terrible 49ers team. Combine his QB guruing with Luck and Kalil's prediction would have come true, but we will be stuck with mediocrity as long as Jerry Richardson is alive.
Scott, the fact that you believe a decision to retain Rivera should be based on his performance in completely meaningless games is evidence that you should be out the door with him. For the second straight year, the Panthers' season was over before Halloween. That's all that matters in the NFL. ALL that matters.
Perhaps Williams is the RB to keep, as he has a lot of ability when used well in a game, and Stewart seems more prone to injury.
I'd rather the Panthers part ways with Jonathan Stewart. Yes, he's good, but he's hurt more often than not.
This should not be enough to save Rivera job. Let's not forget that the Panthers started the season 2-8. Let's also not forget that the Panthers got embarrass on prime-time against the Giants at home. finishing 7-9 is not enough considering the very high expectations that this Panthers had going into the season.
RR and conservative tendancies? Wasn't the major issue in the beginning and middle of season a lack of a running game? They were passing to much. Not sure how that is conservative. A 54 yard FG attempt in the middle of the game was the wrong call. It gave the Saints excellent field position.
Re: 2nd-place finish... since there was a 3-way tie between New Orleans, Panthers and Tampa Bay at 7-9, it's more complicated tiebreak procedure, but ultimately it is CAR at 2, NO at 3 and TB at 4. Doesn't make much difference with schedule, really, as 14 of 16 games are already set now every season. Only difference is those other 2 will be slightly harder.... Scott Fowler
Anonymous .. The Panthers will finish 2nd. The Panthers, Saints, and Bucs all finished at 7-9. The first tiebreaker is record among the three .. We swept the Saints, the Saints swept the Bucs, and the Bucs swept the Panthers (2-2 for all three). The next tiebreaker is division record. Since all three teams split with ATL, then all teams finished 3-3 in the NFC South. The third tiebreaker is NFC record. The Panthers and Saints both finished 5-7 in the NFC, while the Bucs finished 4-8. This drops the Bucs out of the mix into 4th place. With the Saints and Panthers now tied for 2nd, our sweeping the Saints gives us 2nd place. I would prefer the 4th place finish, considering who the Bucs will have for their two unique games next season (DET away and PHI at home), while the Saints and Panthers will each have playoff-caliber teams for those two games (WAS, DAL, or NYG from the NFC East, and MIN or CHI from the NFC North).
You label 7-9 as respectable. That's a problem right there.
Tolbert has surpassed Johnathan Stewart as the "big back" in spades. DeAngelo is the breakaway runner we need to carry the ball 20 times per game. Yes, he is going to lose some yards now and then. But, when he breaks a tackle in the secondary he's hard to catch. The combination of DeAngelo and Tolbert is hard to beat. Not to mention, Stewart has been injury prone from the beginning. Often hurt and sidelined running backs are of no use to a playoff caliber team in the NFL.
What I find most encouraging about the end of this season is that the panthers won the last two games even though cam threw interceptions in both. It's important that the team can win when cam plays an imperfect game, which he will often do, as all qbs do. Less pressure on cam to try to win games by himself, which leads to bad outcomes. I'm excited about next year.
Hello... as I posted at 5:04, we lose 2nd place to the Bucs and finish third. Reason being is that the first tie-break is the hed-to-head record of teams who tied records. We beat the Saints twice, but lost to the Bucs twice. Case closed...no more tie-break scenarios to consider.
How good is Stew, really? We used him almost exclusively in the passing game until he got hurt with marginal results. After he got hurt, DW breaks 2 screen passes for long TDs. Does anyone really think JS would have done that? DW also showed he's clearly the better overall RB with much more big play ability and vastly more durable. We don't need to keep both but if we cut DW we'll end up with a RB with limited big play ability and who's never been durable.
First of all, the Bucs finish 2nd in the south due to the fact that they finished with the same 7-9 record with a win over the Falcons today, and also swept us this year. That gives them the tiebreaker. Only had they lost and finished 6-10 could we have been 2nd. We are third since the Saints also finished 7-9, but we swept them. Saints finish last, right where those bums belong.
Secondly, while I understand the need to free up cap space I don't think getting rid of DeAngelo is the answer. Just look at this game as exhibit A. 210 rushing yards and 2 touchdowns, and really could've been 5 had the coaches let him pound it in instead of Tolbert. No hatin on Tolbert, I know that's why the man is here, just sayin that the numbers, while big, don't even justify the impact DeAngelo had on this game today. He had runs of 65 and 54 yards, and more importantly it was the timing of those runs, as well. There were times when it felt like the offense was stalling (as we've seen before this year) but then Williams breaks a big run and the momentum is back on our side again. That's huge for an offense. There is no denying DeAngelo won this game today with some help from the O-line and D. Cam had a pretty bad day, but DeAngelo put it on his shoulders and that is the only reason we won today. Now you want to show the man the door? Not me. Also, look at that tipped pass DeAngelo took in for a TD. He was aware of what was going on and even though the play was busted, he not only saved the Panthers from losing a down or possibly having someone come up and pick that ball off, but he even took it to the house. Those are the kinds of things DeAngelo can do for you and that's what I define as a game changer. I believe he could probly put up AP type numbers if he were used the same. I love Stew, but he is too often injured and just because DeAngelo is 29, it doesn't mean anything. He's split carries his whole career so he's got plenty of tread on the tires where other backs his age might not. I think we'd be a lot better off finding other ways to cut money. For instance the D played well with Thomas, Norman, Munnerlyn, etc. at CB. Makes me think Gamble is not needed as much as I once thought. Beason is getting paid big money and he got his spot jacked by Keuchley. At this point, the Mike belongs to him and I don't know if the Beast will be willing to go back outside. CJ is making stupid dumb money. Restructure his deal if you can. He's had a nice year but he's not as elite as his money says. Plus Dwan is the reason him and Hardy both have had more success than they ever have before and he needs to be resigned or he's gone, so I would think it's in his own best interest.
Ditto to DeAngelo. He had a great game (audition). Awful season. Not enough effort ... except for TV commercials.
I'd be OK with bringing back Rivera as long as we get a good GM to replace Hurney. If they keep Rivera and promote Beane, however, they'd better plan to move out of Charlotte.
Ah ok..thanks for the clarification on the whole second place thing Scott and PantherFaninKtown.
You're still wrong about Williams though, Scott. DeAngelo, O-line and D won the game today, and this wouldn't be the first time. So next year if DeAngelo isn't here and we find ourselves in a similar situation as today (Cam doesn't have a good game and Stew is injured as usual) who are we going to ask to carry the load? And next time it could be for the playoffs. Bad idea, imo.
6-1 over the last 7, the 1 was at KC the week of the tragedy out there....I am proud of the players for not quitting and we won those games with backups and practice players all over the field, got to give coach Rivera credit for that....JR needs to step up and let Rivera know what he's going to do soon, he owes him that but I hope he stays...for all the Cam haters out there, he showed a lot of guts today, he is the Real Deal and I am so glad he plays for my team...guess we will see who is left by the draft or when JR decides to come down from his throne and tell us
Ps: just love beating the saints, dirtiest team in sports
panther fan in k town
mad props for that explanation
With that reasoning the Saints should finish second because they swept the Bucs.
It's a 3 way tie if it was just us and the Bucs yes they would finish second
You are not looking at the whole picture
KEEP D-WILLIAMS.......Nuff Said.
Nope, the Panthers finish second. Wrong again.
"One way to prolong Newton's durability: forget about giving him the ball on third-and-short and goal-line situations. Mike Tolbert has the body for that, as he proved Sunday with three short TDs in which he simply bowled his way through the line."
The last injury occurred with Cam in the pocket on a passing play. Reality is that he's least likely to get injured when he is MOVING, rather than stationary in the pocket.
Again, CAR is second in the division. You don't have to like it. That's just how it works.
Hmmm... I don't know if it's official yet, the TV guys had Tampa at #2, but NFL.COM currently has the NFC South with all games accounted for as #1 Falcons, #2 Panthers, #3 Saints and #4 Tampa. Panthers, Saints and Bucs were all 3-3 in the division, but Panthers/Saints were 5-7 in the NFC while Tampa was only 4-8 so maybe that's why? Or maybe NFL.COM just doesn't understand it's own tie break rules...
LOL... I guess it must really be complicated as ESPN has the NFC South (with all games accounted for) as Falcons, Saints, Carolina and Tampa, despite Carolina having swept the Saints and Tampa having swept the Panthers!
I guess it's easier to make a living as a sportscaster than I thought... apparently no need to understand the game! ;)
Why do you say they should get rid of Williams?? And you say that after he had the best rushing day in Panthers history. I don't get it. Williams was under utilized all season. Only getting the ball 6 or 7 times a game, and at times was riding the bench. Just ridiculous. I've been screaming all year for the Panthers to use him more. Look at the difference in the Panthers offensive stats since they got back to using our RB's. Even since Stew got hurt, which is usually 7 or 8 games every year. D. Will has shown he still has that explosiveness to be a dominate RB. And look at how well Tolbert has played and what he brings to the table. I say we keep D. Will and Tolbert. Trade the younger, but oft-injured Stewart. Would get more for him anyways. Williams still has 3 or 4 good years left.
Agreed, Scott you should know your facts. Panthers come in third in the tie breaker since Bucs beat us twice. Jerry still needs to make a change. I like Rivera but we need someone who can coach when the game is on the line. He should have ran the ball twice on the first red zone attempt when it was first and goal from the 5. We did not need 3 points. We needed 7 at that point and had nothing to lose. Too conservative. We went into the prevent Defense again and it almost ost us the game.
Keep Rivera, but you have to replace a few assistants. First to go is Sean McDermott. There is talent there on the defense but Mr. McDermott doesn't believe in dialing up pressure with the blitz and goes into a defensive mode with leads playing a soft zone prevent defense that cost us a few close games. We need someone with the guts to make the risky calls and keep the pressure on! Next up, SPECIAL TEAMS! We need a new punter than Nortman (AKA Shankman) and a new kicker (have you thought about trying out Jeff Reed?). We also need a return guy, (Yeah I know that Edwards had a 69 yard return, but he is clearly not the answer). I would like to see some fire out of our coaches because attitudes are contagious. Just show us that you care Mr. Richardson and bring in some talent Please!
675 aterket
According to NFL.com, we finished second in the division. So you are right, case closed!
The bucs do not finish 2nd, the panthers do. Head to Head, in this unique circumstance does not put them ahead of us. Conference record does, and we are 1 better.
Really??...So much confusion on what the final NFC south standings are??. It's simple...Tampa swept Panthers, Panthers swept Saints, Saints swept Tampa....uhhhh...wait, can I start over..
Good grief people are stupid. People have said all week if the Panthers win they'd finish second in the NFC South. Went is this so difficult to understand?
Williams was a monster today, chud needs to include him into he game plan every week if they want to continue. When williams is included in the game plan good things happen on the offense. Wake up chud.....restructure the deal and make it work, he is part of the high octane offense we all want to see. Rivera may deserve a second chance, but only on a short leash. Have a back up plan ready, because none of those other coaches are head coach material.
Arm anti Edwards has a breakaway and the angle and the punter catches him? Pathetic. Release him tonight.
Rankings on NFL.COM and ESPN not withstanding... here are the tie break rules according to NFL.COM... which is why people are laughing at the current rankings.
Three or More Clubs
(Note: If two clubs remain tied after third or other clubs are eliminated during any step, tie breaker reverts to step 1 of the two-club format).
1.Head-to-head (best won-lost-tied percentage in games among the clubs). (which puts Tampa ahead of the Panthers because they won both games)
2.Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the division.
3.Best won-lost-tied percentage in common games.
4.Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the conference.
5.Strength of victory.
6.Strength of schedule.
7.Best combined ranking among conference teams in points scored and points allowed.
8.Best combined ranking among all teams in points scored and points allowed.
9.Best net points in common games.
10.Best net points in all games.
11.Best net touchdowns in all games.
12.Coin toss
Curb your expectations, people.
No win is meaningless. The record is better this year. Anyone who took Ryan Kalil's ad at face value was mistaken. These things take time.
Richardson tried the "proven Super Bowl winner" approach. It was George Seifert and we went 1-15. Super Bowl teams aren't bought.
Also, our offensive line was more decimated by injuries this year. That lowers your ceiling.
Rivera stays.
Scott,
I apologize on behalf of all the Panther fans who continue to argue with you over the tie-breaking procedures that you mentioned in your blog. The Observer stated ALL WEEK that with a win the Panthers would be second place regardless of other outcomes.
It is mind blowing that people would present such terrible logic behind their reasons and still not believe you. Yes, we all I opinions, but to argue against clearly stated NFL tie-breaking procedure has to be tough to take. Keep up the good work Scott and Thank You for your hard work!
Apologies,
Panther fan since 10/26/93
I'm not sure why people are so hung up on the head to head. You can't use it in this case. Think about it. The Panthers swept NO. And NO swept TB. Now, you can't possibly rank that in order. You can't have CAR in front of NO and NO in front of TB and TB still in front of CAR. So you have to move past the head to head tie breaker.
Thanks, John, for your securing of the official NFL tiebreaker rules. I had left out the record against common opponents before the NFC record in my earlier posting. The Saints and Panthers were both 7-7 against common opponents, while the Bucs were 6-8. This moves the Bucs to 4th place. Once this happens, the tiebreaking rules revert to head-to-head between the Panthers and Saints. Since we swept the Saints, we are 2nd, and the Saints are 3rd. FYI, NFL.com now has the complete listing of 2013 opponents on its website, so there should be no need for further discussion on this subject.
On defense, frankly, I'd keep Beason and move him outside, leave Keuchly at the middle, James Anderson on the other side. I'd move Thomas Davis to strong safety. With the Edwards "bruthas" and the Johnson/Hardy tandem, we'd have a pretty fierce defensive core there. Munnerlyn is solid. Godfrey, Thomas, and even Nakamura round out what could be a very good defense with depth. The only question in my mind is which Gamble returns from injury? If the next GM is able to keep these guys and make the salaries work through restructuring or whatever, this could be one of the better units in the NFL.
Anyone else do the "wonder if they were still on our team?" game Sunday watching Darius Butler go to the playoffs for the Colts? Didn't Vikings DB R.J.Sanford also play here?
bring everybody back they just need some tweeking,get superman a tall receiver
Rivera stays if we can't get Chip Kelly, mark my words.
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